Voices of Pinehurst - Interview with Ran Morrissett & Chris Buie

By: Jay Flemma

Just like the famous whispering pines of the region, if you stop to listen to the words of the locals you hear the voice of golf speaking to you.

Chris Buie, who has been playing the Donald Ross courses in the Pinehurst area for over four decades, has been featured in the Wall Street Journal discussing Ross and is the author of "The Early Days of Pinehurst," a book that will come out June 1st (you can buy it on Amazon in paperback or as an e-book). His favorite playing memory is finishing 3-3-3 on No. 2 while playing in front of a crowd with U.S. Open champion Larry Nelson.

Ran Morrissett is one of the world's greatest minds on the subject of golf architecture, one of the people who helped Ben Cowan-Dewar bring Cabot Links in Nova Scotia to life, and runs the golf architecture website GolfClubAtlas.com - pretty good for a guy who's also a full-time equipment financier as well.

Here's my interview with the two men.

JF: Chris, tell us a little about the new book.

CB: It's an essay collection which covers not only Pinehurst, but all Donald Ross courses in the sand hills area, including one that is just starting to get some recognition called Overhills. The Rockefellers owned it until the late '90s, but now the Army has it. The land on which the course sits is contiguous with Fort Bragg, and the Fort bought the parcel of land on which the course sits in 1997.

JF: I've not heard of that one.

CB: A group of wealthy socialites that included the Rockefellers and the Walkers bought 3,500 acres of sand hills land about 18 miles from Pinehurst.

JF: The Walkers of Walker Cup fame?

CB: Exactly. They hired Donald Ross, gave him a blank check, and told him to give them the best course in America. I was expecting a run-of-the-mill Donald Ross course, but when I got out there, I was amazed. Though it's a bit overgrown, it's an extraordinary golf course. The contouring and the shaping are phenomenal. In 1913, the back nine was over 3,500 yards! There's even a 585 yard par-5.

JF: Name another Ross course that might be similar to it and tell us why.

CB: It's sort of a combination of Mid-Pines and Pine Needles. The terrain of all these courses really rises, falls and rolls. And Ross was a master of getting all those undulations to play strategically: If you hit your drive on the correct side of the fairway it will catch a fold in the terrain and give you a longer drive, for example.

JF: Talk to us about the history of Pinehurst. In researching the book, did you find anything that rewrote history regarding the course or Ross? Something interesting that we didn't know before?

CB: There were a number of interesting things. I was surprised to learn that golf was in Southern Pines before it was in Pinehurst. As you know, the two towns are basically contiguous. Well, in 1896 in Southern Pines there was a little nine-holer at the Piney Woods Inn, a hotel in Southern Pines. That was unexpected.

But perhaps the most interesting thing is that Pinehurst wasn't supposed to be a golf resort and ended up that way completely by accident. The founder, James Tufts, had two other ideas fail before he finally made Pinehurst into the country's first destination golf resort.

Tufts made his fortune in soda water, but he had the altruistic and philanthropic heart of a doctor. He wanted to build not just a place people could get away from the northern winters (he was from Boston), but where sick people - especially those afflicted with TB - could get healthy.

Pinehurst was originally going to be in Florida, but Tufts had some friends that had come to the sand hills region and stayed at a little resort in the area. One of the women had been sick with TB, but after a little while in the area she got much better, remarkably so, in fact. When Tufts heard about that, he came down himself, had a look around, and decided to build at Pinehurst instead. His goal was to build a village first as a base of operations, and from there build a resort where TB victims of moderate means could come and convalesce.

But no sooner did they get started when news broke that TB was not a hereditary disease (as everyone thought) but was, instead, communicable.

JF: Well that had to scuttle the whole premise of the village and resort right at the start.

CB: It did. That idea was dead. But Tufts tried again. He found out the land was good for growing peach trees, so he decided instead he would have a peach empire on the land! So they spent innumerable hours getting the peach trees down here and then what happens? An infestation of "San Jose Scale" - that's the name of the pest and some kind of small insect - and it decimated the entire peach tree grove.

JF: So Plan B blew up just like Plan A did.

CB: Yes.

JF: Did they get any peaches at all?

CB: I don't think so. They certainly didn't have a harvest. They may have gotten a peach or two off the branches before the biblical infestation of bugs hit. I hope they got a basketful, but who knows?

JF: So then what happened?

CB: So shortly before Tufts died in 1902, he was living at a suite at the Carolina Hotel and he got a visit from a local farmer. The farmer had a complaint: Tufts's guests were hitting little white balls into his cattle fields. They were scaring the cattle and he wanted Tufts to ask the guests to stop bothering his cattle. So when Tufts went out, he saw that the guests had basically set up a primitive driving range and were hitting golf balls. That's how he got the idea to build a nine-hole course.

So he had Dr. Leroy Culver build nine very primitive holes; he's the same man who built the course in Southern Pines. The first nine holes at Pinehurst opened in 1898. A second nine was added the next year by a pro from Scotland named John Dunn Tucker.

Ross came to Pinehurst the year after that - 1900. As it turned out, the game was wildly popular and they needed nine more holes. That's how No. 2 got started - as a nine-holer meant to handle the overflow. The course was meant for beginners and the holes averaged something around 135-150 yards. In fact, the land where those first nine holes were sat entirely on the land where one and 18 are located now! So that was a revelation too - that mighty No. 2 started as a beginner's course.

JF: So then what happened?

CB: Every year more and more people came to play golf, so Ross kept adding to No. 2. It reached its full original 18-hole configuration in 1907. Ross then kept refining that course all the way until his death in 1948 - almost exactly half a century.

Now remember, though, even back then Pinehurst Resort was so much more than just golf - there was equestrian, archery, archery golf…

JF: What's "archery golf"?

CB: It's just what you'd think it is. You shoot your arrow, then you find it and shoot it again, and you keep doing that until you find and hit the target. And there was still the entire turn-of-the-century, holistic medicine type of treatment for ailments, so when physicians would prescribe rest and relaxation, people would come to the Pinehurst for the restorative nature of the place. There was even a great ad that I found. It was for the Piney Woods Inn, but it's still a great look into the minds of the people that lived during that time. It read: "Where nervous women are inspired with new life and where little people imbibe vigor with every breath…"

JF: Nervous women? I'm sending my mother there immediately. (Laughter)

CB: But it was a healthy environment and people did get well.

JF: How much truth is there to the story that Ross intended this to be his rejoinder to Augusta?

CB: I can't really say. It's probably got some truth in it. He definitely wanted it to be his legacy course. As far as trying to show up Augusta or beat Augusta - there may truth in it but you can't say definitively. He wasn't the kind of man that would have been motivated by juvenile things like, "My course is better than your course." And remember, at the time Pinehurst was so much better than Augusta. The Masters is actually an emulation of the North and South Championship [the men's event has been held at Pinehurst since 1901; the women's since 1903]. Back then, the North and South was everything the Masters is now: it was a major, it was the "rite of spring," when the whole region was once again in bloom, and it was a gathering of the world's best golfers. That was going on for decades before Augusta was even thought of. When he first came to Pinehurst, Bobby Jones took notes on how to run a tournament from the example they set at the North and South.

JF: So let's bring Ran into the discussion as well. Would Donald Ross recognize this golf course, and what would he think about it set up for a U.S. Open?

CB: Yes. Absolutely. The routing they are using this year is the same as when they contested the 1936 PGA Championship here. Remember that back then the fifth hole was a par-5, and now they have changed that hole back from the long par-4 it became back in 1949.

RM: I agree. Ross would absolutely recognize the course. I think he'd especially be pleased to see a course totally devoid of thick tall rough. Instead, there are greenside swales and run-offs and short grass galore, which Ross would see as embracing the kind of imaginative golf he grew up on at St. Andrews and at Dornoch.

JF: Talking about No. 5. But that just raises further questions . . . In his book "Slim and None," Dan Jenkins calls five the best par-4 in America that doesn't have a fancy water hazard attached to it. Is it better as a (par) 4 or 5?

CB: It is a great hole either way, and one of the reasons why it's a great hole is because it's a half-par hole. It was a par-5 originally. Then they changed it to a 4 in '49. Now they are changing it back. It works either way. Look, all the best holes in the world are half-par holes: 13 at Augusta, the Road Hole at St. Andrews, 16 at Cypress Point…

RM: Reversing the par on the fourth and fifth is definitely a net positive.

In theory, par should be irrelevant; each player is just trying to take the fewest strokes possible over the four rounds. Nonetheless, the fifth will be a fascinating study during this event as, psychologically, it's an interesting swing hole early in the round. You'll see 3s and 7s and it could well propel the eventual champion to victory with a spirit-boosting eagle or tap-in birdie.

Also, remember its par isn't being changed in a vacuum. The fourth now becomes a most attractive, sterling par-4 with a green that is far more receptive to a 220-yard approach shot than the infamously unreasonable fifth green! Additionally, the fifth green should prove to be hugely entertaining at challenging short wedge shots - much more so than the fourth green ever was.

The only regrettable thing is that the Pinehurst Resort is now left with a conundrum on its hands in how to play the fourth and fifth holes going forward. Based on its fame as a killer two-shotter, the fifth is the most iconic hole not only at the resort, but in North Carolina. To see its par altered for this event leaves the resort with a headache on how to handle it afterwards.

JF: So Ross would like what the USGA did here? Even with the 7,570 yards and 520-yard par-4s?

CB: I think he'd like it. He understood that, over time, equipment would be better and people would become stronger. Yes, he'd be surprised at how far we hit the ball, but he'd recognize the course. The greens aren't exactly as he had them. Now, with the green speeds we use some of the rolls he put in them were lost. But the essence of the course as he set it up is still there, especially with Coore and Crenshaw's reinstatement of the native areas . . . rough was never the defense at No. 2.

JF: But what about the length? And the difficulty? Pinehurst is a resort in between hosting U.S. Opens. Payne Stewart won with 1-under 279, and Michael Campbell won with even-par 280. Is Pinehurst really supposed to play that hard?

CB: For the pros, yes, actually. First, Ross wanted people to hit long clubs into a lot of these holes. The second hole is supposed to be a long iron - that's what he had in mind. Five was like that when it was a long par-4. There's a lot of holes like that - 11, 12, 13. You do get some shorter shots - at three and 13 - but at the others he wanted you hitting longer clubs in. The new configuration doesn't ask these pros to hit longer clubs than the greens were designed (and intended) to accept. As for those winning scores - par is just a number. Ross intended that the course require the very best players to bring out their very best to win. Pinehurst No. 2 is truly meant to hold championships played by the best in the world. You can't tell how good a golfer is by him playing an easy course, but you can from a hard course.

RM: The golf course sets up to examine the player's full repertoire of shots, just as Ross intended. In particular, he liked to probe a player's ability to hit long, controlled shots into greens, and the 2014 version of Pinehurst is guaranteed to do just that! Its set of one-shot holes might well prove to be the most testing in U.S. Open history.

CB: Now, also Pinehurst is not "hard for hard's sake" . . . it's a fair challenge. It's also a complete lack of gimmickry - no flash, no artifice.

JF: As Jenkins once said, "just great golf shots . . ."

CB: Yes. Ross subjected each shot on the course to immeasurable scrutiny and consideration.

JF: And reconsideration?

CB: Yes. If an idea didn't work, he changed it. He tinkered with the course all the way up until his death trying to make it better and better.

JF: Do they give us a real chance to drive the drivable par-4 third or reach the par-5 fifth in two? Have you found that when they shorten these holes that people take them up on the temptation?

RM: The third and the fifth are true half-par holes of exceedingly high merit. Both have the ability to get the golfer out of his comfort zone as he starts to second guess his thought process. Coming early in the round as they do, they start the process of unraveling the golfer's nerves. By the end of the round, most golfers are cooked.

The real goal at the third from the short tee will be to get in the front-left bunker as it provides a reasonable chance of an up and down for many of the hole locations. Conversely, at the fifth, the best miss might well be long-right and chip back to the hole. Learning where to miss shots around these greens is a never-ending process.

JF: Tell us about the greatest tournament moments in the course's history.

CB: Well there's Ben Hogan's first win . . .

JF: In 1940 at the North and South?

CB: Yes. He had not won yet, and he was getting pretty desperate. And it was a huge breakthrough for him; he started winning tournaments after that right away. But it was also a huge tournament for Pinehurst as well; it adds to the richness of Pinehurst's history to have Hogan win there.

Then there was Payne. After losing the N&S tournament, there wasn't too much going on at Pinehurst. So to get the Open was colossal, and to have it be such a phenomenal tournament with Payne and Phil (Mickelson) and the whole baby back-story, and Tiger was in the mix as well. It put Pinehurst back on the map, where it should be.

JF: Any others?

CB: In 1920 Walter Hagen had to par the last hole to win the North and South. He missed his par putt, then had a four-footer to get into the playoff - which he missed as well. There s a pic of him laughing hysterically after that.

JF: Ran, tell us a little about Coore and Crenshaw's changes to No. 2 both aesthetically and strategically.

RM: They really didn't change things; they just re-emphasized what Ross built there originally. You are keenly aware you are playing golf in the Sandhills of the Carolinas. A golf course's first duty is to reflect its natural surrounds . . . and now Pinehurst No. 2 is a perfect reflection of its native environment. In addition, it enjoys a homogeneous feel throughout the golf course. Water features that have been introduced at other championship Ross courses are mercifully absent here. No. 2 is pure to Ross's design beliefs. That's what C&C restored and they did it well.

Of the tweaks C&C made, expanding the effective hitting area of the 15th green ranks at the top as less than one out of every five players hit it on the last Sunday of the '05 Open. It was just too severe; too hit-and-hope. Also, C&C greatly improved the seventh hole by removing some awkward features and restoring the fairway width. Elsewhere, they tightened some driving holes with a bunker to narrow the landing area in from one side in a strategic manner sympathetic to the green's orientation up ahead.

All these are things Ross would have done, as we all know he constantly performed nip-and-tuck work here and there to make it a better tournament venue while he was alive. Indeed, with no tree trouble to speak of and lots of interesting playing angles having been restored, the men's U.S. Open this year may well remind some of how the Masters played a couple of decades ago. Also, I must add that this is the first time where a group of friends and I could actually have fun playing a U.S. Open course the day after the event. That can only be a good sign and, for that, the USGA should be commended.

JF: Jenkins says No. 2 plays like a links. Is he right?

CB: Absolutely right! It's the same sandy soil. There's no hills - just natural scrub and wire grass instead of gorse, but he incorporated the native elements as a hazard, which is what all great architects do at all great courses. And in the shoulder seasons, spring especially, the wind can come whipping through - two, two-and-a-half clubs at least - and it swirls. Once while I was waiting to play the par-3 fourth hole, the wind changed direction three times. Here's a little local knowledge for you - on the ground it can feel like there's not much wind. You can also look at the top of the pines, but the best way to tell is the sound - you will hear it. There's a reason why we have a town called Whispering Pines. Once it gets above the pine tree line, the wind will have a field day with your ball.

RM: All of that is correct. I'd just have to temper it by saying there is no set of greens on any links remotely like those at Pinehurst No. 2. The point being many of the fairways on links courses feed on to the greens, and often times you simply must run the ball up based on the day's playing conditions. But there aren't many times at Pinehurst where players of this caliber will ideally be looking to land their ball well short of the green and have it scurry on. The domed nature of the greens makes it more of an aerial game than a true links. They will aim for the middle of the green and putt out to the corner hole locations.

JF: Could/should the USGA do a better job of rewarding attacking golf?

RM: The USGA is doing just that by taking the two Opens to Pinehurst. Though this will still be a survival test of the highest order, it will promote golf as being a sport worth playing. Seeing players attempt to deal with all those fiddly little shots around the greens will inspire people to play the sport. Personally, I don't think watching people hack out of rough - a la at most Open courses - sends a very engaging message.

JF: How will watching people stubbing chips, three-jacking, and playing pitches come back to their feet inspire people to play the sport?

RM: People will think they could do better! You can always get a clean strike on the ball just off a Pinehurst green and therefore, recovery - in theory - is within the skill set of most mid-level or better golfers. Conversely, everyone knows that they don't have what it takes to escape tall rough on a routine basis and that total lack of hope creates a negative "why even bother" impression.

JF: It seems the USGA and PGA are misusing fast and firm conditions, though. Isn't fast and firm supposed to offer more playing options via the ground game, instead of suppressing scoring?

RM: Fast and firm has many applications at Pinehurst, including in the driving areas where slightly pulled or pushed tee balls can run out of room and into the scrub. If the fairways are soft and receptive at No. 2, then the course could play too wide with too many miss-struck, miss-judged tee balls lingering in the fairway. This Open should be fascinating because the pros can finally play for sides of fairways in order to gain the optimal approach angle into Pinehurst's greens.

Getting landing areas brick-hard short of greens at Pinehurst is important as it allows the full arsenal of recovery shots to be employed. Regarding other courses, it all depends on the design. For example, fast and firm short of the greens at Oakmont is imperative as the option to feed shots into the first, eighth, 10th, 12th, and 15th greens is a must. Conversely, designs built between 1955 and 1995 rarely put much emphasis on the area short of greens, so the conditioning in that area is of less relevance during the normal play of the hole.

JF: Any concerns on staging the men and women back to back?

RM: I have a few thoughts. First, the weather is obviously worrisome in that you can keep it glued together for four days almost regardless of what Mother Nature throws at you (see Merion last year), but two weeks leaves you much more vulnerable.

A second concern comes at the third hole. It's a short par-4 and most of the men will lay-up and hit their favorite wedge from 80-120 yards into the green. And you now the size of divots men can take with their short irons! When it comes time for the women, they will be hitting their approach shots from the identical 40-yard area, one of the rare times during the round. (It could also happen at 13, a short par-4 on the back.) I thought the USGA might consider having those areas play as ground under repair for the women (any divot with fill from the week before). It is regrettable for the women to have to play in a minefield from where the men stampeded the week prior on this fairway, and worse still if something like that ended up being a deciding factor for the tournament.

Lastly, once the men leave town, there will be a collective exhale that comes from hosting a huge event. In terms of keeping the excitement high, I wish the USGA would let the 16th play as a three-shotter for the women. Ross always had it as such and it is another one of those great half-par holes. Yet, an eagle roar late in the round might be a thrilling component for the women's event to enjoy. For drama, an eagle roar is certainly more heart pounding and exciting than a birdie one.

JF: What are the best places for spectators to watch the tournament?

CB: I like the stands behind the 12th green because you can see all the action on 12 fairway and green, the tee shots on 13, and some of the play on 14 as well. And then watching the approaches to 16 are cool. They are coming at it from a long way, so shots end up all over the place. It gets pretty interesting around that green. I also like to walk around. Pinehurst No. 2 is not hilly. It's an easy walk. You won't be doing any mountain climbing.

RM: The bleachers to the left of the sixth tee are ideal. There's a confluence of holes where you have the third green, the approach into five, and the tee shots on both four and six. You'll see the whole range of shots: PW into 3 (or guys trying to drive the green), you have the big-bomber tee shot on four, the goings on at the wild fifth green, which is pure Pinehurst, and finally the desperately difficult long-iron shot into the par-3 sixth.

JF: Is Pinehurst too expensive?

RM: Pinehurst No. 2 is packed around the clock so golfers don't seem to think so. Personally, I try and save my money for the truly special/unique places like No. 2 rather than getting nicked to death at rounds over ho-hum courses. Some of my greatest rounds/longest-lasting golfing memories have come at No. 2 (including a two-eagle/four-birdie performance in 1991 that featured a hole-in-one at the ninth). Do you think I remember what I paid that day? Of course not! Do I remind my brothers of that round every time we get together? Yes!! Great courses produce great memories.

JF: Who is going to win?

CB: Whoever I pick is in for a bad week, because I don't think I've ever picked the guy to win the Open or the Masters or anything else for that matter. It could be somebody you wouldn't expect, so I'll say Matt Kuchar. I feel sorry for Matt with me picking him, though. I don't want to put the hex on him, he seems like a nice guy, but there you go . . .

RM: It's great to think that Phil Mickelson is a favorite in a U.S. Open. The course set-up favors creativity, which generally means drama is close behind. I will be pulling for Phil. I'd also like to see Geoff Ogilvy get back into form.Any Aussie golfer (e.g. Adam Scott, Jason Day) accustomed to seeing short grass around greens could prevail. What a real shame that neither Greg Norman nor Seve Ballesteros got to compete at No. 2 for a U.S. Open title.

JF: What about Webb Simpson?

CB: He plays here a lot and his family is just down the road in Charlotte.

JF: What are the can't-miss attractions around town for diversions? And how about some restaurant recommendations?

CB: My favorite restaurant is Ashton's in Southern Pines. They are artists. It's a charming atmosphere, understated elegance, with a formal area and a pub section as well. It's New American cuisine. Try the Reuben egg roll. Also Ironwood - it's a steakhouse, but they have other stuff as well, right there on midland road. And Sly Fox - a British restaurant. Fish and chips, other upscale pub food and Indian cuisine as well.

RM: My favorite restaurant is 195, which offers American fusion. Great wait staff. Same for Ironwood. It straddles Spines and Pinehurst and is within two miles of the fifth tee. For pizza (a tragic staple of the Morrissett diet), try the So Pies NY Pizza on Pennsylvania Street in Southern Pines.

Since launching his first golf writing website in 2004, http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com, Jay Flemma 's comparative analysis of golf designs and knowledge of golf course architecture and golf travel have garnered wide industry respect. In researching his book on America's great public golf courses (and whether they're worth the money), Jay has played over 420 nationally ranked public golf courses in 40 different states, and covered seven U.S. Opens and six PGA Championships, along with one trip to the Masters. A four-time award-winning sportswriter, Jay was called the best sports poet alive by both Sports Illustrated and NBC Sports writers and broadcasters. Jay has played about 3 million yards of golf - or close to 2,000 miles. His pieces on travel and architecture appear in Golf Observer (www.golfobserver.com), Cybergolf, PGA.com, Golf Magazine and other print magazines. When not researching golf courses for design, value and excitement, Jay is an entertainment, copyright, Internet and trademark lawyer and an Entertainment and Internet Law professor in Manhattan. His clients have been nominated for Grammy and Emmy awards, won a Sundance Film Festival Best Director award, performed on stage and screen, and designed pop art for museums and collectors. Jay lives in Forest Hills, N.Y., and is fiercely loyal to his alma maters, Deerfield Academy in Massachusetts and Trinity College in Connecticut.

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